Dramatic U-turn on Section 21 - latest details

Do not be deceived - this changes nothing. It’s a tactic to try and ensure the bill gets through by giving a notional concession, for which at any point they can decide the conditions are met to go ahead with S21 removal.

As others have said, arbitration is likely to end up being a pre-requisite to issuing S21 - and I don’t expect arbitration to be favourable to landlords in any dispute - which in effect will nullify what’s left of S21.

The tories have clearly decided they do not want a PRS anymore - which wouldn’t be so bad if they had anything to replace it with, but they don’t so everybody gets to lose.

And if Labour wins the GE, this effective removal the abolition of S21 from the RRF will be reversed in seconds and rushed through in weeks.

I too will not vote Tory, not that this shower are true conservatives. I will be having the courage of my convictions and voting REFORM PARTY UK. I will ignore those telling me that I will be letting Labour in, My reply will be that this non-conservative government are doing that by themselves and don't need help from me.

Not voted Tory (or for anyone else for that matter) since Osborne did his triple attack. Up until that point I was blue through and through. Never again.

If you honestly believe that mediation and/or the Ombudsman will help landlords, I have a bridge to sell you. LOL

Ombudsman will always side with tenants just as courts do now

Mediation = more delays
Will this run in parallel with "breathing space" or serially?

I think the there are 2 problems with mediation: 1. the disparity between what a tenant & a LL consider reasonable behaviour & 2. tenants lie.

Maybe I'm being silly but I would certainly hope that a mediator would take the tenancy agreement as the framework to negotiate within.
Both parties have signed it, therefore both parties should stick to it.

@Jo, I love your sense of humour!

Mediation would begin with statutory provisions. The contractual provisions could be relevant, but not if they conflict with statute.

Since when have Ombudsman worked?
As an example,most Financial services complaints never get to the Financial services ombudsman because of the sheer volumes involved. Often rejected without explanation.

The ombudsman will be fully funded by landlords. Expect an excellent emergency service by them all paid for by our registration fees and fines.

I think a Labour Govt may U turn too - they are beginning to realise the mess housing is in & will be keen not to make it worse. Won't be the first time a Govt backtracks 'because we didn't know the full story until be were in Govt'.

But you have to prove fault. Good luck with that. Arrears will be eroded by endless compensation awards by the ‘impartial’ ombudsman. The rest forget it like the tenant deposit scheme… you will always lose as a landlord.

Somebody needs to tell Gormless Gove he's an a-hole. There! Fixed it for you.

The Welsh so called government have already banned S21 no fault evictions and we have our own Rental Reform Act here.
Can't see Labour being at all favourable towards landlords when they get into power.

Agree entirely.
My two months rent unpaid has morphed into ten months to get the property back and a lot of extra expense, so that would be very helpful.
Although, I can't see that happening.

I can’t really see any good points in the bill.

All well meaning and sensible ideas such as those above will not be implemented fairly and equally. It’s best not to participate at all.

So how do you ‘get away’ from the forever moaning negative disrespectful tenant that instantly ruins your day when you see their name come up on your phone. How do you end this relationship? If the gov gets this renters reform bill through with a no right to end the tenancy then selling, move into the property is the only means of escape from these horrific people. Oh and death!

The problem, Robin, is that landlords have had enough of being very, very heavily taxed and licensed. They are going. It is not compulsory to be a landlord.

And as Jahan says, there can be very difficult tenants who make life quite intolerable and miserable for landlords.

Jahan, I had Nigerian tenants I've mention on here. I used to get their name pop up at the beginning of the day, late night texts. Just causing problems. Tenants will have no fear of being asked to leave now and will be so much worse with complaints, especially just to be vexatious, and to 'earn' compensation.

Yes Nick once the tenant has no fear of the Landlord then it’s effectively over. Shame of it is if a particular type of tenant gives grief then you do tend to be shy of taking on similar in future tenancies. I’m just keeping it real here. To make the same mistake twice is costly and foolish

Jahan,

I would be extremely shy of taking on any such similar tenancies again. I have contemplated:

1) Visiting in secret (i.e. waiting outside to see them going in and out) of their existing residence to see they do live there and count their kids and see the undeclared boyfriend. Probably sitting in the car for MANY hours like some detective.
2) Visit their employer to check they work where they say.
3) Do interviews with their employer (if reputable).
4) Visit the bank with the tenant to obtain a genuine bank statement
5) Guarantor required
6) 12 months rent + upfront

Once I though of all that I thought with all the tax, red tape and risk of not being able to get rid of the tenant and lose the properties altogether either with these new rules or worse still to come I think selling is so much more preferable.

Can't see a genuine fast track eviction for non payment ever happening, can you ?

Andrew - No I can't. There's far too many people and not enough properties. They will just keep strengthening tenants' rights. Why should either late payment or non-payment be a problem? Rent is becoming optional. We are talking about families and THEIR HOMES. Landlords' considerations won't even come into it going forward. Talk about hung out to dry.

Indeed.
The government really has no business getting involved in any contract or agreement between two parties, especially changing existing contracts without the Landlords Consent.

No one forces a tenant to sign a rental agreement. Term should be at the decision of the parties to the contract whether they agree to a one month notice period or a 5 year notice period under whatever conditions they chose to agree to. The Government has no right to dictate terms.
They don't get involved in commercial contracts to this extent because they know it would grind business and the economy to a halt.
They're about to find out how it will grind the PRS to a halt.

Totally agree. I don't see much of a change. Just some minor concessions that probably won't be honoured.

The Blessed Margaret, the last TRUE CONSERVATIVE PM.

Can't trust anything they say especially Gove.

One point I forgot to mention, as NRLA are clearly talking to government, why are they not asking for tenant and landlord's register as part of the removal of S21. The evidence from this register can be accessed by courts etc to expedite problem resolution, including eviction.

Dream on..

There's far too much **** being raised in schools these days and travelling over uninvited in little boats and are entitled to everything. A good proportion of them have little to no hope complying with all of that. Hence the state has decided to make these people our problem.

Nick, this point about people in boats. Do you have any idea about them. It is not their fault or problem that this government is making scapegoat out of them and stupid people in this country follow the government bulls**t. This is why we have Brexit, stupid leading the stupid. It is the conservatives ideology that is costing Britain money not the people.

Pat, what idea do I need. Every image you see of them is not women and children. All young, fit and able young men. All leaving their dust bowl countries with little or no welfare to come here and live in 4 or 5 star hotels, 3 meals cooked per day, medicine, wifi, clothes etc. Far better than they would get at home.

I am no longer a conservative fan, but Labour? They want to let more in.

Nick,
If you can’t see that the government is trying win voters by trying remove s21, then you can’t understand why these boat people are being targeted either.
It is all done to appease certain section of their supporters or public to win votes.
I am not sure either policy is working for them. They can keep people preoccupied while they make a mess of the country.

Pat,
I can see the government is trying to win voters by removing S21. I think the boat people are all about legal aid blocking their removal due to the Human Rights Act etc.

Nick,
If you have a drug dealer next door to you, you will have no problem. You will only have a problem if the police catch the drug dealer and prosecute him using legal aid??

Pat, no I will just have a problem either way.

Exactly.

I can't see that any landlord would accept that. It would be such a poor business decision. It is one thing to give your tenants a very good deal, but another to hand your house over forever.

But do many landlords realise what is happening? I think many are sleep walking into a disaster.

I think you are right Nick; some of them are taken in by the notion that Section 8 will be strengthened. They don't understand what security of tenure is.

Perfectly put!!!Thank you!!!
I'm out too. Best of luck. no

The removal of S21 is a looney left ideology, which the conservative government has pledged to execute in order to get votes.
Removal of s21 with the market as it is disaster. How ever, we can negotiate with the conservatives. So an implementation of policy which is a very non English way of thinking will help.
Today, to prove you communicated with your tenant via letters etc in court is a problem. Where as if you communicate via a portal, your communication is recorded and proof if needed in court. It becomes a deterrent because it is recorded. We can’t put Cctv inside homes to record what the tenants are doing but, regular inspection can be recorded and loaded in this system. I accept, it is more work but it will clean up the letting industry, remove rogue landlords and tenants. The problem in general with people in this country is they know they need more housing but they don’t want it on their doorstep.

I know, there is no such thing as easy money. I make more money from HMOs than any other rentals. The reality is that I am not afraid of hard work. I have lived a privileged life too. Britain is a toxic nation where everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. People who invest in houses aren’t financially savvy. It is bread and butter ideal British investment.
I assume you have used advertising portals like SpareRoom or openrent etc. I also assume you use some sort of deposit protection scheme.
You wouldn’t have used any of these in the past too. You have to move with the times and embrace new ways of working. All landlords when they started off in this industry would have made many mistakes. The first problem is lack credible information. I know I struggled to get credible information about HMOs when I started. British government and people’s ideological idea’s don’t work in practice.
The reality is s21 is coming at some point. Negotiate a system that makes tenants just as accountable as landlords and get your rent paid and on time and all damages recorded and charged as if they don’t pay, they won’t be able move to the next property and cause the same problems. All the looney left charities will disappear. The rental sector will prosper. And tenants will have good homes to live in.
Oh wait, there is only one problem, this is Great Britain, where delusional people are in love with old fire places and identical looking houses. The problem is many people in this country don’t want change in a changing world and will get left behind.
I say embrace the changes and make it work for you.

Are you an agent, Pat?

No Ellie, I worked in the IT industry at a corporate level and have had to accommodate changes all my life. My role was to go to companies and improve the way the worked. Make what they believed to be impossible, possible. I also worked in different countries and understand there are far better ways of doing things. When I started in the property sector, I was shocked. The level of incompetence and unprofessionals in the housing sector is beyond belief. The councils are a joke. The planning department are egotistical con-merchants, letting agents are the biggest waste of money, I can go on.
So now, I manage all of my properties myself.

I don't know whether it will be possible to make the rental reform changes work.

Michael and I let property in the period before Section 21 was introduced, so we know very well about operating in difficult circumstances and adapting to those circumstances.

I don't think that Landlords have ever been subject to as much regulation as they are now though. The State seems to want absolute control of the entire housing stock.

Labour appear to be even more anti-Landlord than the Conservatives have been. The result of that will be more landlords selling up.

Michael, on your contract problem if it is possible for you or a family member to email the contract to one of your tenants, then they should be able to sign their part of the contract and email the contract on to the others. They can then sign it even if they are in Spain, France or the US, and email the fully signed contract back to you which you print out and sign.

Don't sign your part until everyone has signed their part.

Ellie, I doubt the renters reform bill will work. If it isn’t for the conservative landlord MPs, we may not had this delay with excuse of reforming the courts.
The problem we have is that there is no one really representing the landlords view. We need a body to put the type of ideas forward as levelling the playing field.
The problem with section 8 is that it need reforming and the second is providing evidence. The portal is a good place to obtain evidence of not just your situation but history too.
If NRLA are in talks with the government, they should put in this type of idea in and make s21 a non issue. Non of us use s21 to kick out a good tenant anyway.

I agree with you, Pat, that there has been nobody representing landlords' views.

That is the main problem.

I type the correct name under the signature line, so that it is clear that the signature corresponds with the right person.

There is a problem if the tenants are not trustworthy. If they are honest people then you don't need to worry much about the formalities.

Tenants won’t need to be honest at all going forward. Especially under 🌹

If the past is anything to go by, most tenants, honest or otherwise, won't be able to find anywhere to live.

Landlords resist security of tenure, either selling or seeking a letting arrangement not covered by the legislation which grants security of tenure.