Housing Secretary Michael Gove has this morning said his government should ‘relax the pace’ of EPC reforms expected from private landlords.
In a Sunday Telegraph interview following the Uxbridge by-election, Gove gave strong hints that the timetable would change.
The paper says: “Mr Gove admitted that in his own department the government was ‘asking too much too quickly’ of landlords, who will be banned from renting out their homes unless they pay for green measures such as insulation and heat pumps to meet a new minimum energy efficiency threshold by 2028.”
And the Telegraph continues: “Citing existing financial pressures on landlords [Gove] added: ‘I think we should relax the pace.’"
In recent days Rightmove revealed that 16 per cent of homes listed on the portal had previously been let privately, and states that concerns over stricter Energy Performance Certificates were now the main reason for landlords selling.
The Gove interview on green issues follows the failure of Labour to win the Uxbridge by-election, with both main parties citing the introduction of an expensive Ultra Low Emission Zone tax as being to blame.
Controversial Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan - who is almost daily demanding the powers to introduce rent controls in the capital - has made ULEZ a personal mission.
Today’s Sunday Times suggests that following a meeting with Labour leader Sir Kier Starmer, Khan is likely to tone down the financial impact of the measure on London residents.
Tomorrow - Monday July 24 - Gove is forecast to announce a revised planning policy to boost flagging house building totals.
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Too late. The damage is already done.
That’s a very narrow view, William. Thousands of landlords have upgraded millions of houses and flats over the past 15 years. Reducing energy waste and energy bills. Wonder if that would have happened without EPCs and more importantly the Tory’s simple and effective Minimum Energy Efficiency Standard (MEES). Our counter-parts in the social rental sector have really made their buildings better over the past few years and they’re not even subject to MEES. Some short sighted PSR landlords now need to sprint to keep up.
Correct Billy, they have decimated the private rented sector. The only thing that this has done is created an acute shortage which social housing will not be able to cover.
Also the constant meddling means landlords do not know whether they are coming and going.
Martin. You really are in the clouds. In my area there is very little to rent. The last one I let hadtens of applications, whittled down to 10 and I picked the cream from that shortlist. Meanwhile the tenants in one I wish to sell are refusing to move out after the S21 issued as they correctly claim they cannot find anywhere else to live. I have withdrawn the notice for now and massively inctreased the rent, which thay are willing to pay. What sad times for tenants.
Thousands of tenants have now been forced to pay higher rents to fund an ill thought out and highly subjective scheme which needs a root and branch reform.
If it's so good, why not make it compulsory for owner occupiers first as there are far more of them?
Wait a minute Uxbridge shows that's far more votes at risk!
The Greens are on the run - not easy in sandals!
But the market is moving at its own pace and it’s accelerating. Tenants and banks don’t want to rent or invest in energy wasteful houses and flats (EPC Grade D and worse). A cold tenant in fuel poverty is bad for business. One of my company’s investors just found Knight Frank in London refusing to take on a flat of his for management because it was not yet EPC Grade C. So he’s had a draft predicted EPC prepared and is insulating one main wall and installing an efficient, ‘fit for purpose’ central heating system. The 22 million EPCs on the public national database have become increasing accurate over the past 15 years and us landlords ignore them at our financial peril.
But they're not accurate. It's a very broad-brushed model and the assessments are hit and miss.
All tenants really care about is location. There's no point living in an A rated house if it means having to own 2 cars and spending an hour driving to work each morning plus an hour driving home again. Plus having to drive to everything else in your life. Far more energy efficient and cost effective to live in a conveniently located house that costs a little bit extra to heat for a few weeks in winter. Everyone seems to forget we use very little heating for half the year, a moderate amount for 3 or 4 months (depending where in the country you live) and a lot of heating for the remaining few weeks. We all know the bill for February will be painful but we also know the bill for August will be peanuts. Does anyone seriously want to leave a convenient location and pay all that extra money on petrol and parking?
Listen Jonny 5,
If there was clear guidelines then all landlords would do it. The whole thing is not fit for purpose.
Get back to your ZX81 and stop processing nonsense
What they should be doing is giving LL's grants to improve epc ratings.
Like William said, this is too late, as damaged has already been done.
Agreed Frankie, I do not want anything for free but if the said you need the following items to be done then we would do it.
Thing is how do they get
Round the issues with listed buildings. They will never be a C
Just making it fully tax deductable would help. Currently it's classed as a capital improvement and we have to fund it out of tax paid income. That's after we have paid the totally unique Section 24 turnover tax.
Simply not true, Chris. The £75 once every 10 years EPC is very accurate based on the inputs that landlords and home owners provide to the assessor. Every landlord is quite at liberty to use a full SAP software produced EPC. Not a problem. You’ll need to pay for an architect to calculate the U-values of the building fabric, commission an intrusive air pressure test and carry out a retrospective full lighting design. Cost for that little lot £1,500, then it will be a ‘super’ accurate EPC. Is that what you want? Be careful what you wish for! That’s what structural building surveys cost so we can take EPCs in that direction, but not sure other landlords would agree with you.
I didn't say I wanted an accurate EPC. I just said they weren't accurate.
They're a nonsense.
EPCs are wildly inaccurate.
One of my flats was F25 according to the estate agents assessor. My regular highly experienced assessor made it G14. Bearing in mind it was ground floor with 3 external uninsulated walls, had single glazing, no heating, no insulation of any type and the only hot water was from an electric shower I fail to see how it is possible to have an 11 point difference.
Another one was E48 according to the estate agents assessor. My assessor made it D67. The first one had failed to notice the cavity wall insulation. The fact the insulation is soaking wet and causing damp problems doesn't matter from an EPC point of view. It exists so it gets lots of points regardless of how much damage it's doing to the building.
Gibbo, there are not accurate.
I have been on here countless times with assessors who didn’t know one end of a clipboard from the other.
Marking loft insulation down when they did t even go up in the loft…! The whole system is a joke.
Even if you did everything you said they are not accurate. Short of dismantling all external walls to see if the insulation was actually installed as expected, and under any slab, they can never be totally accurate. No architect or consultant can know how well the structure was built.
According to what people are saying here, it's not that EPC's are inaccurate, they are inconsistent. You can get two different results for the same property.
Is this because their are assumptions made in the assessment which are subjective?
The whole EPC thing is a shambles carried out sometimes by unqualified people making assumptions that are far from the mark... And we have to pay for this crock of sh*t!
Gibbons you're flogging rubbish. You have vested interest in spouting this gibberish. Jo westlakes gets this spot on In her three articles. I've been in the energy business for longer than you will ever have. Im afraid foreign banks have moved In and are Ripping the system off. Its staggering the lies that are told.
Maybe government have finally woken up to the destruction of supply they have created through tax hikes. They will never admit they have caused the exodus because of their tax increases and will blame supply reduction on high mortgage rate increases (still caused by them) and EPC changes (still caused by them) - but unless they do a u—turn on tax then supply destruction will continue. In the end potential tenants want to find a tool over the head - but now they have increasing rents as it is hard to find shelter…..
Absolutely spot on Nigel. Well said
Gibbo. The basic economics don’t work out for expensive “solutions” like heat pumps or EWI or solar roof panels e.g. £14,000-£20,000 to install a heat pump to save (modelled) energy costs of £200 per year. If the tenant is worried I’d rather give them a discount of £200 off their rent.
What’s really happening is the costs for this scam climate change agenda are being heaped on to private individuals owning property for letting in the hope they sell up. The race to retrofit all older properties up to an A rating EPC which, if they don’t they won’t be able to rent out the property, will cause an unbelievable crash in house prices and yet another massive transfer of wealth from private investors to large corporations ready (with funds from cheap bank borrowing) to hoover up the excess.
They’ve not started on privately owned properties yet to my knowledge (unless they have via the back door using finance as the stick) but one day when that comes in the financial ramifications will be gargantuan. Only THEN will the population wake up to what’s going on…the biggest power and private property grab in the history of the modern world. The renting classes are already suffering massively as a result of the climate change scam in many different ways (section 24 introduced to raise more taxes!).
Climate change is not a "scam", as you've called it twice in one comment, Gareth.
We've known about it for about 30 years: even Margaret Thatcher acknowledged it was a fact (but didn't do enough about it). But those who understood were derided as muesli-eating, sandal-wearing, tree huggers in the right wing press. Look who've been proved right!
Increasingly, more people have realised: a changing climate is fact, and then that it is man-made. Even, eventually, some stupid politicians I had to advise. And some energy companies realise, to a greater or lesser extent.
If it is many thousands of scientists (like all those on the IPCC) and the UK's independent CCC, or those who have vested interests and investments in fossil fuels, I know which I'd believe.
If proper action had been taken over the decades we've known of the problem, when it was easier to do (and when we knew the risks of energy insecurity) there would be a lot less to do to deal with the problem now: so a lot less inconvenient and far less expensive/costly.
BTW, for those affected, ULEZ is a child health thing, not primarily a climate policy action. Being poorly implemented in London, unlike I understand in other cities. Luckily my car is ULEZ complaint. But my district next door may get a pollution reducing vehicle use charge, for use of any vehicle. Due to poor planning for thousands of new homes (and regional planning being abolished by Eric Pickles, to win votes from those who were led to believe things would be better without it).
Gove is a snake 🐍 but on this I believe him, he knows that too many of us have sold and the consequences are getting out of hand, he is saving his own skin, that’s all 🤔 I wonder what he will do to calm it down ?
Introduce more legislation to cover the cracks rather than repeal the past legislation eg section 24. Best plan would be to revert to the 1988 housing act, repeal all subsequent anti landlord legislation.
But what actually is going to happen? As usual with Gove what he says and what he does seldom match.
And this too is spot on Simon. I wish others could see it in the same eyes as you do as it’s painful trying to explain all this to tenants and the like.
Listen Little Pete,
I can't believe you think our Government has not given Landlords enough 'Guidelines' to reduce the energy waste in the PRS. How much nanny state help do you want? Just invest the time to improve your professional landlord knowledge and actually read the MEES Regs. That well written document is packed with all the answers you will ever need. You add insulation to your units' walls, loft and roof. You install a modern, efficient heating system. You clip in LED light bulbs. How difficult is that? The MEES Regs came out way back in 2015. That upgraded the very worst houses and flats from 2018 - 2023. Sensible and it worked. The Government wants all rental houses/flats to be EPC Grade C (that's going up just one Grade from the current national average of Grade D) by 2028. That's 13 years notice. I can see why a minority number of 'don't get it' landlords want to relax the pace. 13 years notice is no where near enough time to insult a loft and install central heating!! Come on Little Pete, your arguments make no sense and have been blown out of the water by the eyewatering tax-payer energy subsidies dished out last winter because of the War.
Well Gibbo,
I have read it and it makes no sense and it was not well written. If it was well written how is there such a variation in assessments and gradings.
Now Gove rowing back?!?! So not well written and not very clear. Which by the way is similar to your posts.
Now that we can see you are biting obviously a human, act like one…
I repeat…. Come back to the light, you once made some sensible posts, stay away from the dark side 😂
Can we have dislike button so we can express our opinion of Martin Gibbons nonsense posts?
I guess you could just reply 'Dislike'
I am sorry, Martin Gibbons, but you are being really insulting and patronising. Fitting underfloor and external wall insulation, locating and finding technical solutions to cold bridges, ensuring that there are as few air leaks as possible to new-build standards (every tightening too), then retrofitting a ventilation and heat recovery system, an air source heat pump and ultimately solar panels and a battery to power it, to a solid wall Victorian house built for coal fires and designed to "breathe" to reduce condensation and allow said fires to "draw" is neither simple nor easy nor cheap.
EPCs are an utterly pathetic measure and given you pass yourself off as someone knowledgeable I'm amazed you defend them - they don't even measure heat losses or carbon costs, just cost to run at the time of assessment. A SAPr is the only way to do the measure effectively and even then, so much relies on the quality of the surveyor to find the weak spots in an already-built structure. SAP for new-builds are a doddle in comparison.
I've been quoted £25,000 just to do the EWI on my detached 1907 E-grade house in Reading, after 3 months of trying to find a builder with any experience, at a time when my returns have dropped from 3.3% to negative because of interest rate rises. The rest I listed above will probably be another £40-50K. Most solid-wall houses are going to cost tens of thousands to get to EPC grade C, which is why most landlords are selling up these properties and getting out. Patronising and insulting them as ignorant, miserly or simply cowardly compared to your green machismo is completely unhelpful.
Gibbons. Do you work for the government? Your posts are simply a joke. Stop being a partronising whip and realise there is a reason landlords have had enough .. and that tenants are ultimately paying the price of Landlords consequential actions - ie to leave the PRS Sector in droves.
Martin, I don't know how to put this politely. You must be 1 of the politicians trying to push this net zero bull through, or an EPC assessor that is trying to justify not looking in the loft to see if insulation is there and just looking at other houses in the area. Both are totally useless and have their heads stuck in the sand.
If the clowns in the government want PRS landlords to make all of the houses a C to help achieve THEIR net zero target, let them pay for it. we are doing all we can to afford to do to get them there, where financially viable. I'm not paying out 8k for solar water heating that will save £28 a year. I'll just sell the house to a private individual and let the clowns deal with the housing crisis that is coming.
I think that the only reason that Gove wants to give landlords more time is so that his buddies in the build to rent trade have more time to fill the gap of landlords exiting the market.
Its a tragedy had to tell one of my tenants they are living in terrible fuel poverty theirs one of nine identical flats some are c some are d their epc d flat used £22-30 more energy in the year to april 2023 than the c rated flat next door as a matter of interest one of the d rated flats used £14 27 less energy than the identical c rated flat above
OOPS for the sake of clarity that was £14-27p
Precisely Anthony, it is a complete non sense and farce.
Im still trying to digest the climate change scam of cutting down a tree to replace anything plastic... The bigger coal plants required for the bigger range electeic cars and other stomach churning reverse lunacy.
Turkeys will vote for XMas... Thats the mindset of the average voter, politicians ALL should know better bit are unaccountable but to big corp
I think personally all EPC’s should be subject to what you can do to a building. With older buildings especially listed ones it is absolutely near impossible to get there.
So why don’t the government set out an EPC improvement plan which would have a minimum criteria. If it’s limited to a very basic list of double glazing, energy bulbs, loft insulation, cavity wall insulation and a decent boiler which are all checked every year then this is the basis of an efficient home.
Listed buildings should be included however with the respect they deserve why not offer grants to these to get to the basic standard. The licence fees that councils are charging should cover this and not extra biscuits 🍪 for the workshy town halls.
Gradings should be marked on what is possible and not on variables.
We are not only selling but we have reluctantly just stopped the imminent exchange of contracts to purchase an EPC grade C flat.. Why? The Government's unreliability!. Property value threats, increasing market rents with probable defaults and with a promise to remove section 21 without the section 8 improvement documented. TALK of providing an office (probably overloaded) to resolve disputes!.. Do we TRUST them!. The dictating who I am permitted to lease to at a rent they consider is open to their judgment. We have been leasing flats for 20 years with stable rents and long-term happy tenants, (with the occasional rip-off merchant)... Because ALL the attention is on PRIVATE landlords and SOCIAL landlords, the Gov's tax-subsidised friend gets away with dampness and mould. The flat was EPC D until discovering the rating was completed allocating building PLOT numbers and then allocating the flat numbers!! All 24 flats were therefore incorrect. This conservative government is waking up to the fact they have been trying to buy votes from tenants and found it hasn't worked. The entrepreneur is dead in the eyes of this government and I am right of center with nowhere to go now! I'm out!
I don’t believe Martin is involved in the Private Landlord sector at all, he’s a socialist plant. Either that or he still believes in Father Christmas 🎅.
I'm all for energy efficiency measures when they make clear financial sense.
LED light bulbs pay for themselves many times over, heat pump tumble driers save a huge amount, app controlled heating programmers are one of the best inventions ever, electric throws and blankets cost very little to run and allow you to be truly comfortable with the main heating a couple of degrees lower than usual. I have solar panels on 5 houses, own an EV and a Prius. All of these things make financial sense and pay for themselves over a reasonable period of time.
What I can't see any point in is evicting a tenant so I can spend thousands on solid floor and internal wall insulation that will never pay for itself. I'm pretty certain most tenants would prefer to keep the home they are happily living in at a realistic rent, with a landlord they know rather than be evicted and have all the cost and upheaval of finding a new home.
Surely the real test for energy performance upgrades should be the pay back time.
Light bulbs, heating programmers, loft insulation and hot water cylinder jackets are all going to more than pay for themselves within a reasonable time frame.
Solar panels can be very cost effective. The old Feed in Tariff was great and meant early adopters of solar had about a 7 year pay back. Currently the Octopus Flux tariff is a game changer. There's less certainty with it but right now it makes solar panels and batteries very worthwhile.
The real fly in the ointment is who pays and who receives the financial benefit. It's completely unreasonable to expect a landlord to pay vast amounts of money out of tax paid income to install stuff that will maybe save the tenants a couple of quid a month. If it was fully tax deductable or if we were given a 130% Super Deduction like commercial buildings were given we may all be a bit more enthusiastic.
Can we all agree to just ignore Martin Gibbons? He is either a plant, a chat box or something equally out of touch with reality.
He does add diversity to the conversation. Or should that be controversy?
Is he any more out of touch with reality than all the politicians who are trying to destroy the PRS?
It's so difficult though. 10/10 for trolling. I can't resist but respond to the nonsense.
Agreed
I quite like him commenting. I think what he says is mostly rubbish and I think he is promoting his energy assessment business but it is good to read other landlords responses. I am encouraged that it is not only me that has absolutely no confidence in the EPC system.
Well, very difficult to beat politician in destroying the PRS.
Sadly, its all too little too late as we go into year the 9th year since governement started its politically motivated attack on the sector. Even if all the wrongs were righted on SDLT, S24, CGT, TFA, MEES etc, they would take too long to unwind, should have thought about these things 3-4 years ago when many of us were shouting out loud that the worst supply crisis since WW2 was coming. Those chickens are roosting, no getting rid of them now.
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