Stop the threat of Periodic Tenancies - petition to save ASTs

Signed and got half a dozen who I know to sign

Well I am sorry to disappoint but I consider myself to be a good landlord given my tenants have told me so many times over the years, but I am starting to sell my portfolio, yes the current government action is the main reason, but like a lot of us I am coming up to retirement…. So it’s serendipity, it’s not ALL about the government. …. But the end result is the same, less rental’s and higher rents.

Agree with Simon, long way from retirement but as a result of this action by the government I have instructed my letting agent to now put an increase every year on all my properties. I consider myself a good landlord but some of the nonsense I listen to from the council is beyond a joke.

One example, 12th January query over a council tax demand. The reply I got was…… will let you know when I get it..!!!

Pure lazy and downright incompetent

Can we have a dislike button for comments like this?

What planet are you on??
I know my business model, and ultimately it’s about providing an income for me!
Providing me a pension so I can live out my years with something more than the pittance provided by the government.
I had the balls to invest in property and so yes thankfully I provide some cover for the lack of homes Built by the incompetents in and around number 10.
Landlord’s wouldn’t be “threatening to leave “ if it was a viable investment.
Please let me me know what pink fluffy cloud your on and I’ll come and join you

Sorry Yonnette - you are deluded if you think this isn’t causing good landlords to sell up. On its own, maybe not, but with everything else there are plenty of good landlords that are now selling up. Half the landlords I know are selling at least one property if not fully selling up. I also am offloading a property this year to reduce the risk of my portfolio.

Nobody is threatening society, the statistics indicate this is not an idle threat - landlords are selling in large numbers - it’s not revenge, it’s a business decision. The profit has all but been removed, and now the government is vastly increasing the risk to a landlord - common sense dictates the equation has shifted and many are selling as a result.

Yonette

You're forgetting that for the 42 years you have been in the business, Landlords haven't had to give up control of their own properties in the way this new legislation requires.

I have lived through the last 5 years of the disastrous PRS legislation in Scotland and can tell you that you are WRONG. There is now a massive shortage of good rental properties in Scotland and I have enjoyed rent increases of over 30% in 2018, after the first part of the PRS legislation came in banning Landlords and tenants from agreeing a mutually convenient fixed term tenancy.

I have just been pleasantly surprised to be able to increase rents by a further 33% following the ill advised rent controls imposed by the SNP and their little Green helpers.

I am a very happy Scottish Landlord but the opposite side of that coin includes many families now struggling to find long term rental accommodation in the PRS or struggling to pay the new market rents which other tenants are only too keen to pay.

Rental properties bought by owner occupiers also tend to be much less densely occupied than rental properties where every room tends to be occupied. This of course adds even more to the housing shortage and is largely down to Scottish Landlords selling up due to legislation which Gove and his cronies are hell bent on imposing on decent tenants in England.

I just got rid of my tenant. Breaking 4 window handles, and 3 internal door handles. Windows all shut, mould and wet washing everywhere, over-occupied property (council doesn't care) council enforcement, and fraudulent no-win no fee solicitor letter.

Having to try and PROVE wrong doing is extraordinarily difficult. Everyone is against landlords. Including their own agent and solicitors in my experience. S21 is their only friend. It must stay or else.

I am a good landlord and I'm off. Fed up with being vilified, not listened to, too many £30,000 fines now, some unlimited! And taxed to death. Good luck housing your tenants.

Yonnette, I think you are still one of those people who imagine landlords on horsebacks whipping up the poor farmers for their land. Please come down to reality - we, I can vouch that I am a very good landlord going above and beyond to provide more than fair tenant experience, struggle so hard to save up and buy properties and run the business, taking lot of risks financially, and all this to provide good housing which is the job description, but certainly not charity because it is a business and just as you go to work to earn a living and save up for pension etc, we have the right to maximise our business which, just because we are landlords, does not suddenly change it into some kind of charity thing, that we are here to provide tenants at our loss - you definitely would not expect that from any other business - free food from supermarket, free service from tradesmen, utilities companies - because people can’t afford? No. Then why expect that a landlord will have to bear the expense or risk of the tenant not paying rents or wrecking their own property, and them not having any say to safeguard their own income or property? The paperwork is enormous, and when an equation involves two sides, why should it be that for a decision that one party makes for their own reasons, the other one has to go through the consequences of it - does that seem fair to you as an enforcement officer? If the tenant wants to vacate at the cost of void, marketing and other expenses, it is only fair that the tenant takes up that slack. Isn’t that right in all other businesses? Would Tesco let people take things without having paid for the bill, just because the poor shopper can’t afford to pay? Would you argue with Tesco that it is there to provide food, and it cannot say the customer cannot leave with food unpaid for just because it needs to make a profit.
Do you now see how unfair this country has become when it comes to the PRS?
We are not talking about profits here - we are talking about sustainability, given that we have to bear lot of expenses of the business to be the good landlords the country expects us to be, with all the rules and regulations, which seem to be unreasonably increasing with every passing day - such as more licensing on top of existing licensing which seems to be just a money making exercise - it is acceptable for safety reasons, totally understandable, but on top of that, unnecessary registrations, etc etc etc, which serve no purpose!! Please do try and think of all sides and all points of view before you judge!!

A 2 bed flat in a reasonable area of London would likely fetch around £450k when vacant so please tell us who is likely to let that flat after section 21 is outlawed and and the chances of regaining vacant possession in this lifetime become somewhere less than zero as per pre section 21 and the value of said flat is reduced to around £200k as the only likely purchaser will be the sitting tenant. My guess is Slim and Nil and Slim's about to leave town.

I’ve used S21 for rent arrears as it’s easier and to get rid of ‘moaners’ & ‘whingers’ and generally people that you don’t want in your day to day existence. It’s brilliant. As for enforcement officer. I wonder how many roofs you’ve put over people compared to a small landlord. We add value you just take away

''Threatening society'' strange words ? I would say it's more of a business decision, if a business is no longer viaible changes have to be made, some of my properties simply will not make it to an EPC C, it would be very unwise of me to be spending large sums of money on these properties, far more sensible to evict and sell in auction

Yonette,

I fear that you have chosen the wrong platform to air such a view!
As a good landlord and agent for 35 years I am daily seeing other good landlords moving away from the PRS because they fear that the steps being made are regressive rather than progressive. Landlords do provide homes but they need to be able to choose who they house and under the current regime this seems to be getting eroded. The major changes that came about as a result of HA 1988 were the ability of a landlord to get their property back (s8 & s21) but also the ability to let for a fixed period with a mechanism for ending. The current proposal of periodic tenancies from day 1 takes away the security that any business owner needs; imagine a landlord refurbishes a property, a tenant takes a property today and then tomorrow gives 2 month's notice because he has decided he doesn't like the property! What protection does this give landlords when it may be cheaper to take a 2 month tenancy than live in a hotel for the same period whilst completing a work project?? That will cause landlord in time and effort which he then recoups from the next tenant by way of a higher rent to compensate. At the moment a proportion of what you pay for, say a jar of coffee, at your local supermarket includes the costs of getting it to the shelf along with a mark up for profit, in addition there will be a mark up to account for the jars of coffee stolen from that store. Stop the coffee thief and the price can come down to compensate, stop the majority of changes in Renters Reform Bill and the number of landlords leaving will stop and rents can come down to compensate.

You seem to think that you know what Landlords are thinking. I can assure you that you do not.

Yonnette, your reply has just convinced me to sign the petition.

My tenants always tell me that I'm the best landlord they have ever had.
In over 20 years of being a landlord, I've never (yet) had to go to court or evict a tenant.

From what I've seen over the last few years is that, Yes. Good landlords are leaving because they have had enough of the bombardment of legislation, additional taxes and abuse from the government.

42 years ago landlords weren't portrayed as the scum of the earth, they weren't taxed out of existence, no selective licencing, Some landlords have taken on too many mortgaged houses during the low interest rates and they need to sell to survive.

What effect do you think the new EPC C rules are going to have.... ?

Landlords in London can more easily fork out 10k for updates, whats that 5 months rent? Now picture that in the North of England where that Equates to almost 2 years rental income, without any expenses.

What the government are now proposing makes me to about to invest the money I had saved up for another rental is now going to sit in a bank account earning over 5% interest.

Less hassle than buying another house.

Guess that I'm really not a good landlord after all as I'm now putting profit before buying another house.
I look after my current tenants really well, but I just don't want to take on any more in today's circumstances.

My first house will be sold when tenant finds a new place to live, I won't evict her, but I won't re let when she leaves. It will just never realistically make an EPC C. I'm currently helping her find another house as I want to sell. More will be forced to follow.

Now after I've signed 1425 signatures. Hope more follow suit.

Welcome, Yvonnette, to one of the most deranged places on the internet. I just come here periodically to laugh at the comments and remind myself most of society isn't this psychopathic. Enjoy your time here, then get on with your day, or it becomes quite depressing.

@James Turner - I know I'm pointing out the bleeding obvious .... but here goes. If you take a look at the top of your browser screen, it starts with LANDLORDTODAY. Big hint - it's a landlord forum! Now I know that may come as a shock to you, but guess what, it'll be landlords here. Not train spotters, or airplane spotters etc .... you get the drift. My other passion is cars with big engines - my wife thinks I'm mad but hey ho, it keeps me happy. So tell us James, what's your "thing"?

Nah, I'm sticking around. I've read Robert Brown's observations from Scotland on the effects there. I'm looking forward to the carnage and rent rises that will arise. Govt has cost me a lot of money over the last few years so I'm looking forward to recouping it back

Landlord means psychopath does it? I would love to say that's news to me, but it isn't.

Assuming you are a psychopathic landlord from Brighton, and not in fact a sad little man hiding on the internet behind a pseudonym?

Do you not have a Just Stop Oil March to go to turner? Or to hug a tree?

The irony of a landlord telling me to get a job. Are you a stand up comedian? You probably should be.

I've got a job thanks, but I have spare time. I'm sure you're au feit with spare time.

Turner is just a silly troll. Best ignore him. Most of us landlords know that it is hard work at times. Sometimes unpaid.

Sat here enjoying my spare time kiddo, not a worry in the world…

Now run along while I carry on with fine tuning my stand up routine.

Oh and before you go Turnip mind you don’t fall when climbing that bridge with your painted blanket

Please explain, in detail, what you do that you think is hard work?

Is it calling out the dodgy builder to bodge something? Have you got thumb strain from dialling a number?

@Jimbo, worked 70 hours a week for a number of years and brought up three kids. Supported my family and paid all my taxes.

Do not come on here giving it the big one when you do not know anyone in this forum or have any respect for any of them.

I suggest you take a look in the mirror and ask yourself have you really done a hard days work or are you having yourself on.

On that note I shall bid you a goodnight my keyboard warrior friend x

Nonsense... The only problem in thirty five years that I have had.. Was a tenant moving out and sub letting..
She got a Section 2I from me.. Otherwise I have never served one in my role as a landlord.

I have now sold two properties because the RRB requires me to hand my keys over to a new tenant for the life of the tenant. Your right, I am a business not a social landlord but I am not cowboy landlord . Your job brings you into contact with the bottom end of the market, where slum landlords flourish.. They flourish because the government stopped paying rental benefit on market value but instead on size of property. This means that a decent landlord who maintains his property makes less profit than a slum landlord. The increased profits of slum landlords allowing them to expand..
The failure to build enough homes for 40 years when there has been constant rising demand is both the Labour part and Tory party fault. The failure to build sufficient social housing is disgraceful. Careful what you wish for. The RRB is going to cause havoc.. The very least the government could do is phase in the abolition of fixed term by first making all new tenancies a minimum of three years and then five before complete abolishment. That would allow the market to adjust and allow for more social housing to be built (or/and allow Councils to buy out private landlords).

Yes I agree and a very deep lake with strong undercurrents!!

It’s a classic. A landlord keen for anyone to pay their mortgage and costs but themselves…

S D not sure of your point?

SD... What planet are you on...? I worked three jobs to save up to buy my first buy to let...Admittedly deposits were smaller then but the failure of all governments for 40 years to build enough housing when there has been constant riding demand is responsible for high property prices. . When I first let my property, I made a loss due to interest rates but preserved. .. I could have not bothered becoming a landlord and spent the money on cars and holidays... What stopped u from copying me in making sacrifices? Times have changed.. Buying property is now much more expensive.. (due to goverment failures).. I saw an opportunity to invest and took it. Why should I not have done? I don't let to benefit claimants but not because I dissaprove of benefits but because of the difficulty of dealing with Councils.. However without private landlords willing to let to benefit claimants we would now have large shanty towns in the UK. .. Instead of hating on landlords who ensure there is property to let (home ownership is not suitable for everybody) you should berate the government's failure to build enough homes, especially social housing.

Well said Michael, I may well update this a little later as I have a meeting with an enforcement officer today.

Tenants wrecked a property and the council want me to refurb it with them in it..! I have especially flown back to deal with it. Do you think they will pay for my flight, car hire and hotel??

Michael - if I read correctly she is an enforcement officer not a landlord - is that one of those lily livered people from council that go in to properties wrecked by a tenant and believe that tenant when they say its the Landlords fault and whose wages are paid for by us?

@ Peter D - hope you are going to get rid of these tenants before abolishment of S21 - recently advertised a small house in Norfolk and got over 40 applications - you will have no problem finding good tenants who will be very grateful for your house .....

I was thinking the same, but perhaps there needs to be something said specifically about landlords' interests. The Renters Reform Bill is ending our businesses. I know you have carried on brilliantly in Scotland, but many of us are not prepared to operate as you do.

Ellie

The interests of decent landlords and decent tenants are virtually identical- the provision of a safe and comfortable property let for a fair rent on an initial rental term acceptable to both parties which can be extended indefinitely by mutual consent.

It's therefore much more politically expedient to focus on the potential harm to decent tenants by increasing protection for rogue tenants and disincentivising decent landlords to stay in the prs, resulting in the sale of good rental properties to owner occupiers with the likely under occupancy exacerbating an already serious housing shortage.

Companies don't promote products and services by pointing out how much profit they will make. They focus on how much customers will benefit from them and for Companies to prosper it needs to be a win win for both parties.

If Gove and his cronies are hell bent on creating losers those will be decent tenants who don't have options, not landlords who have several options available to avoid or mitigate the effects of this ill thought out legislation.

Only focusing on the potential harm to decent tenants has any hope of success as harm to decent landlords might even be seen as a benefit to the twisted "activists" and commercially ignorant politicians and civil servants listening to their vile propaganda.

The petition is still very much worth signing. Landlords, in general, do not want shorthold assured tenancies to end.

If problems do arise we can assume they will drop the ideas in England !!!!